SmotheredHope wrote:

Searched the forums without getting any results about this, maybe it's been discussed before - am I being right or wrong here?

http://www.discogs.com/history?release=26061#latest

Live album = Compilation?

I would never use compilation for a live album...

...and furthermore I feel the whole "Compilation" format is riddled with questions as of where to use it, and everyone uses it in different ways. I remember a fairly recent discussion about it but here but can't find the thread (Why is it that when searching the forum some 3 year old threads comes up first instead of more recent ones?)

brajoapau wrote:

That to me is not a compilation, but an album.
But like you said, everyone uses the 'Compilation' format in different ways.

I use 'compilation' for:
Same artist, groups (Hits, Greatest Hits, Best Of, The Ultimate Collection, etc...)
Different artists compiled on a release.

If I see 'This compilation (P)&(C)' on a release, I add it on my subs.

SmotheredHope wrote:

The word compilation by definition means selected works from various sources/releases compiled on one release - a live album of previously unreleased material (ie not compiled from other live albums) simply can't be a compilation in my opinion. Surely the songs have been released before, but the live album is not compiled from previously released sources. I don't get it, the use of compilation in this case.

Anyone else?

Iron_Fist wrote:

Just use whatever you want. Isn't this what Discogs for?

Album
Album, Compilation
Compilation

Any of these three choices will do just fine. In the end, it's just too subjective: there'll always be someone who disagrees.

SmotheredHope wrote:

That's not what I thought. So I should change 12" to 7" on some random submission just cause I want too? Or what exactly do you mean?

corne_mo wrote:

I would use Album cause it's a bands live album, in combination with compilation cuase (almost) none of these tracks will be first released on this album.

choenyi wrote:

Originally released in separate standard jewel cases.

^^is the only thing that smells like maybe a comp to me.

Mop66 wrote:

So not applicable for any vinyl releases, right? ;)

DS_Helder wrote:

I think you'll agree what makes a 12" vs a 7" is easy to decide. Discogs could make it as easy to decide what a "compilation" (etc) is, simply by having a definition of it ("we don't care what a "compilation" means in other contexts, in Discogs it means "[definition]" and nothing else.").

That's not how Discogs works, however, as Discogs tends towards
a) letting every contributor use every available term in the way they feel is right, and
b) letting the fact that words are written on a release decide whether to use a Discogs term or not, thereby emptying a term for any possible meaning.

Internaut wrote:

I totally agree. A live album could be a compilation, but only if the same recordings have been released before.

TomKay wrote:

Agreed. Although I would also say a live album is a compilation if the material is marked as being recorded at different concerts.

SmotheredHope wrote:

Yes, but it should be a re-issue then shouldn't it? Those were also released very close in time (which might not matter), but regardless of this the person who made the edit makes it clear that he is using the compilation tag because the band performs tracks that has been released before (in studio versions).

SmotheredHope wrote:

Yeah, I wasn't serious, and didn't know if the person posted it was serious either. Bad comparison of course, more of a sigh over that there are many areas where there no clear distinctions. Which might not be all bad though, admiteddly.




Well, I was never a mod, but I've been around long and read the forums long enough to realize that although a lot of things are not determined by the RSG, stuff like this was brought up for discussion in the mods forum, and then all/most mods acted in the way of the consensus of the discussion when reviewing submissions/edits. Which makes it kind of the same thing as having it in the RSG, or rather a standard is applied in any case.

DS_Helder wrote:

...up until the next discussion, that was - as such things very seldom was transformed into written rules. Problem with applying rules built on consensus, is that someone will always try to find a better way to solve it. I would prefer to have distinctive, unambiguous rules - even if those limited the use of the term for some users. We don't need "perfect definitions" as long as they're clear. Still, I agree moderation was preferable to today's do-what-you-feel-like chaos.

nik wrote:

The rule on this is firm:

http://www.discogs.com/help/formatslist

"Compilation - This tag should only be used where it is clear the item was released as such, for example it is explicitly mentioned on the release, or by the label, artist, or other reliable source."

If in doubt, don't use it.

SmotheredHope wrote:

I've read that, but that's not have it is used on the site. The particular case I brough up is a crystal clear example of it, I'd say.

SmotheredHope wrote:

Yes, and agreed. Especially that moderation was a million times better than how it is now. I hate to see all the mistakes go live immediately when it comes to the stuff I collect. This was not a particulary bad case though, it's not the end of the world if it says compilation on this non-compilation live album... I still felt a need to see how others use the format compilation.

Iron_Fist wrote:

Well, I'm seeing quite anything on everyday's submissions, so I thought that was Discogs policy now.



I think you meant musical pieces (songs) and not recordings, now didn't you? An album song is not the same recording as a live song. So in some way the (live) recordings were never released before, hence it is not exactly a compilation.

Mop66 wrote:

I guess what he means is that live recordings that were released before could be part of a compilation. Such as this one: http://www.discogs.com/release/544349

Internaut wrote:

No, I meant recordings. If for example Deep Purple made a "best of live" CD that where a collection of tracks from their prior live releases, then that would make it a compilation. But if they played those songs in one show, recorded them, and released them on a new live CD, that would be a new live CD album.

Sorry for my lousy English...

Drama_Ft._Justified wrote:

I'd say it's a compilation. Disc A and Disc B were each sold separately previously with their own different artwork. I managed to find Disc B alone on ebay.

auto-converted long url

SmotheredHope wrote:

According to the recently added notes by the same submitter, yes. There's some doubt about that and though I've been collecting Depeche Mode since 1982 I'm not totally sure about it (cause I'm not in the US hence have bought the domestic ones first), but many indications leans towards that these so-called separate releases actually was the 2 CDs that were included in the original long box edition (long box removed and CDs sold separately). I worked in a record shop back then and I remember for the US imports we just ripped the longboxes open and threw them all away, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Whatever the case is with that the intention was never to release them separately since all other editions except for the US (the long box country :D) released it as 2LP/2CD. Even if they were released separately those separate releases came out at the same time as the 2LP/2CDs throughout the world, so it's not like there's a few years between separate releases and then a 2CD of both CDs compiled.

Regardless of the above, this is not a compilation to me.




True. :P

SmotheredHope wrote:

This I agree with totally - that's when a live CD becomes a compilation and when it's not a compilation.

Furthermore - with the logic applied by some for the use of compilation of a live CD, all remix CDs are also compilations. Previously released material but in different versions.

Drama_Ft._Justified wrote:

It doesn't matter the length between when they were compiled into one set, what matters is that they were Compiled. If they were sold in a long box in separate cases like you mentioned, that's a box set. Box sets almost always are a collection of CD's previously released on their own. Even if it was only released previously in a box set, it's still a compilation IMO because the idividual cases were removed and now it's just 2 CDs in one case set. Though it doesn't really matter anymore since the submitter removed it. =D

SmotheredHope wrote:

So every US long box with 2CDs in it is a boxset? That's just how they were sold back then. Come on - long box = boxset? How else would they release a 2CD-set in the longbox format without putting the CDs in separate jewelcases? The labels had to accomodate the longbox format, it wasn't as every 2CD-longbox was a boxset.




It wasn't a box set and furthermore it was issued as a 2LP set (as well as on VHS, complete show - not half the show on one VHS and the other half on another VHS ;)) in the US at the same time, no individual releases of the vinyls from the 2LP-set are available in separate sleeves which also points towards the fact that those so-called separate releases were in fact incomplete longboxes (the 2 CDs in separate jewelcases without the longbox).

But ok, my original intent was more to hear other peoples opinions in regards to wheter or not a live album of previously unreleased recordings is a compilation or not, with this being a (frustrating) example for me. Thanks for the input everyone.




Yes, I saw that, and I would correct vote it now if it wasn't for the "separate releases" notation. Someone else probably will though.

Iron_Fist wrote:

Do not be. That was my misunderstanding.

BigTone wrote:

Seconded.